5 replies to this topic

[Berrick]

IMO it's possible in rare cases. Ogata said Rimi was a genius, with talent only seen 1 out of a 1000 and he planned on using that talent to kill Miu. If that's the case how rare do you think the talent of Miu, Sho, Berserker, Siegfried and Kisara? IMO Kisara is less talented than Rimi, while Miu and Sho can't be much more talented than Rimi, since Rimi can compete with Miu, without Rimi needing to work as hard as someone like Kenichi to get results. Their talent (Sho and Miu) may be something like 1 out of 1500 due to their other talents Rimi may not have developed to the extent they have, for instance insight and willpower. So how talented do I think the likes of Siegfried and Berserker are? Maybe 1 out of 2000. 

 

So if Miu and Sho are around the ballpark of Rimi's talent (1 out of 1000) the implication would be that it may be possible for lower class Martial artist to beat masters. Miu and Rimi have speed that rivals master class. Sho has a Master Class body. Kenichi has ki has reached the level of masters, ki holding. The point is disciple class can have abilities that rival Master Class. Imagine if Sho made it to intermediate expert class, his greatest abilities (speed and power) could of become far above a garbage class master abilities in the same area. Add the boost Sho would get from releasing his two ki's and then using them with Sei Dou Goui, his speed and power would be so great a garbage master probably wouldn't be able to deal with that. 

 

 

What if there was a disciple who had a talent that was 1 out of 100,000?This hypothetical disciple would have master class abilities every area except technique, in which he would be disciple class in that area. Could you imagine how far he would get by the time he became a intermediate class expert? Garbage class masters would most likely get dominated.

[Andrew]

I belive that Kano or Miu or Kadjima could deal against low class master pretty well i dont saying they will win but  its gonna be hard for low master class to take one of them, Even back then Kano had master class speed, reflexes,body,  i belive if Kano stay alive in the end of manga hes gonna be first who become master class fighter among disciples, Kajima was able to dodge against Grandmaster attack i belive hes able doing pretty well against low class master, Rimis main talent was her speed and yes shes overall pretty talented but shes not talented as Kano, Or Berserk, they were born for fighting to be honest 1 out of 1000 is not very rare

[citizen_lion]

I belive that Kano or Miu or Kadjima could deal against low class master pretty well i dont saying they will win but  its gonna be hard for low master class to take one of them, Even back then Kano had master class speed, reflexes,body,  i belive if Kano stay alive in the end of manga hes gonna be first who become master class fighter among disciples, Kajima was able to dodge against Grandmaster attack i belive hes able doing pretty well against low class master, Rimis main talent was her speed and yes shes overall pretty talented but shes not talented as Kano, Or Berserk, they were born for fighting to be honest 1 out of 1000 is not very rare

 

The 1 out of 1000 thing was a figure of speech I think. 1 out of "1000 budding martial artists that Ogata has met personally while looking personally with a grandmaster's eye" is basically 1 out of 100000 normally.

 

I think Kenichi and Kajima could pull it off against a beginning master if they tag team. One on one win would be down to extreme luck.

 

Miu and Kanou could do it too, probably with the same chance, but they lack the hitting power, so their fights would progress quite differently.

[citizen_lion]

I disagree about Berserker though. I think he is by far the most talented young fighter in HSDK. Basically he is the Elder of the next generation, if he can find his conviction (whatever that conviction is).

 

Kenichi is a moderately talented person with a very strong conviction... He could very well be the Jenazad of this generation if he wasn't careful. Good thing he has good teachers and family.

[Delirium Trigger]

Siegfried's pretty talented for developing his own style to such a degree that challenges human physiology by himself. Plus, an amazing musician that covers a variety of genres from classical to rock. If only he puts more effort in his training.

Natsu should fair well with a low class master fighter, especially at his current level. He has enough speed and strength to keep up, and his Kyosa/Go Kyosa would be able to put them down. Sogetsu wanted him to face Fortuna in the DofD. He should be fine then.

[Ogata]

I agree with citizen_lion  ( still the quote button does not work) in regards to Berserker. He is a very special case in terms of genetics and learning potential,

What makes him unique and natural like the elder is the fact that, he is just born to perform fighting techniques as if it is a second nature. Also add the fact that he has a strong body just from the virtues of amazing genetics. Some folks have amazing genetics but no natural fighting ability and vice versa. Berserker has both.

The only thing he doesn't have at the moment that elder has is proactive mind to learn new techniques and explore different moves and methods. Berserker seems carefree and somewhat absent minded in that regards but that's fine because he has given his trust to Ogata who takes care of his physical training while he just focuses on fighting when opportunity strikes.


To answer the main topic of this thread. I suppose a disciple can beat a master. I mean Hongo vs Jenazad was a match between two individuals who were in different leagues. Almost as if Hongo was a disciple and Jenazad a master. Carelessness and straight up passivity killed Jenazad. He could have ended the match at anytime. Kind of like a kid who is so good at video games that they go out of their way to not give 100 percent effort to see if the other player can make it interesting. In case of Ogata vs Ryuto/Kenichi, Ogata got serious in the end because he saw how bad they wanted to win.