7 replies to this topic

[Berrick]

As a disciple, expert or master what is the most important condition to getting stronger? I'm asking because Ogata brought up a good point about Isshinsai Ogata beating Rahman, although Rahman is 30 yrs older. I was wondering why that is that Isshinsai Ogata could do that, so I decided to look back to a certain chapter. The Elder says there's countless people who can learn faster than others, but not many can reach the top:

 

 

So I was wondering what you guys think is necessary to reach the top. What roadblocks stop someone from going higher or to highest level? What are the 2nd and 3rd most important conditions to getting stronger? I got an idea of what it might take, but I want to hear your ideas first. 

Edited by ki0, June 23 2016 - 06:39 PM.

[makenker]

talent, hard-work, motivation, practice, perseverance, determination & experience.

not entirely sure which is the most important,

[Ogata]

Right on! I have thought about this question and it has some relevancy in to my personal journey with boxing/martial arts. The first and WORSE thing that destroys someone is:

Complacency!

Regardless if this is HSDK, Dragonball or real life. the number one destroyer is comfort. Here is 3 examples I will share with you and why I LOVE Ogata Isshinsai as a character.


1. First thing first, if we look at the HSDK bio on the kenichiwiki, we can see characters drive, motivation and lust for life. I love Mihail but you know why he is so weak? Because according to the bio, his dream in life is: killing people and becoming rich so he can live in an island. That being said, he already knows how to kill and is strong enough to kill 99 percent of the characters in HSDK universe. So he has no drive to reach the same level as Ogannosuke.

I believe Michaels motivation was a mixture of developing obsessive compulsive disorder with scythe wielding and his bloodlust to level up to where he is at.

Now lets look at Ogannosuke and Ogata (they have the same motivation!) In Ogatas bio, he wants to "the ultimate martial arts standing by that  abyss" by interpretation, Ogata wants to journey to the mastery of martial arts. He doesn't want money or political power, he only wants to develop his martial arts to some god level. Same with Ogannosuke  who has a dream of " life centered around the martial arts"

Rahmans dream was something along the line of " new age of yoga and world peace"  to me he seems very comfortable with his skillset and so it seems Rahman is in a maintaining phase.


Dragonballz/super:

In the new dragonball, Vegeta expressed to Freeza that he finds goku annoying but he needs Goku because to him, Goku is a source of motivation and an object of admiration ( he expressed that he is at peace with goku being number 1 but he still wants to experience Kakarots greatness)

For Vegeta, Goku is his measuring stick and when Piccolo got strong was because of various factors like such as training for Teen Goku, the saiyans and the androids. Same with Frieza, after coming back to life, he had the motivation to train which he did and reached a level beyond SSJ3.


Real life:

I stopped boxing for few years because my genetic/talents were crap and I was doing the same type of training as everyone else. Naturally speaking, if the I am doing the generic boxing training as everyone else while having crappy base makes the journey fruitless since the guys with a stronger genetics/talent are also doing the same thing and they are 3 steps ahead. 

Now he reason I started boxing again is because I found some amazing exercises from the old physical culture era and I have immersed myself a little bit and because it is paying off because its translating well in too my boxing/sparring. I am not sure how far I can milk the benefit of these exercises but either way, becoming proficient at them means I can become a personal trainer with unique training methods and that's a good motivation to push myself in it.

Also, injuries, career/personal life and lack of good instruction or lack of  possessing something unique can take away the motivation.

Sorry rambled on again...

[WarBandit]

Where did Ogata defeat Rahman? For Satsujinken, a fight isn't finished until one or the other is dead. Rimi herself said so, and she no doubt got that from Ogata. He might have overpowered Rahman, but he wasn't defeated because he seemed fine, later.

That said, the most important thing is the will to get stronger. Kenichi is proof that as long as someone can keep training hard, they'll improve.

Having strong motivations also probably helps. For someone who has something to aspire to or a goal, that helps to push them over the edge of gaps. I think folks who "just want to fight" might progress just as fast, or likely even slower, at times.

[Ogata]

Ogata did beat Rahman! He was about to deliver the finishing blow until Agaard threw a kick and jumped in. Oh common with the "fight isn't finished" Ogata has shown the ability to show mercy. Lol at using Rimi as a reference, Rimis character is based on being a one minded moron who makes bunch of noises with her mouth.

That being said, the only reason Rahman lives is because of agaards intervention and most importantly, Ogatas main objective was to protect Kushinada due to the fact that Kushinadas technique not having any defensive quality to it and it happened to be a long range move. Had Ogata hit Rahman with that Bear claw, Rahman would have died easily and the same goes with Agaard. If Ogata was so inclined he could have killed them both without even breaking a sweat.

I hate this example but its similar to Michael vs Hongo. Hongo hit him with a direct move and Mihail flew out of the building. He later reappeared similar to how Rahman popped back up, That being said, if both Hongo and Ogata were inclined, they could have easily killed Michael and Rahman if they chose to go after them. Fact is, both parties were KOed/out of commission and needed mandatory time to recover.

 

[WarBandit]

You have a different definition of "beating," than I do, then.

[Berrick]

Here's what I think is most important to a fighter's growth:

 

1. Support Network...I think the most important part to getting stronger, for a fighter, is having a good support network. A good master can prepare their disciple for what they have to face, and bring out their potential. Although having a good master is usually essential, they can't do it alone, having rivals to push the disciple and friends to give emotional support can help one grow substantially like Siegfried noticed about himself and his situation. 

 

2. Foundation...Having a great foundation determines to what heights you can potentially get to as a fighter. If a building has shaky foundations then it can't be built up very high before falling down. On the contrary, the stronger the foundations the higher it can be built. IMO the same applies to fighters. In body and mind you need a strong foundation to be great. 

 

3. Heart...Having a strong heart helps in multiple ways. With a strong heart a disciple class fighter, can take harsher training, or push themselves harder in fight with strong tenacity. Having courage can help a fighter concentrate in battle and help to see openings in the opponent.      

Edited by ki0, July 04 2016 - 12:52 PM.

[Mister Perfection]

Rahman was damaged Ogata was clearly fresh and he activatedo sei dou goui