41 replies to this topic

[Nacchi]

Only two fingers.



Shigure, what are you doing?

[Nacchi]

Im finally done.

[Combatmaster1o3]

Im finally done.

Center mass, straight through the abdominal aorta artery. She would have bled out instantaneously. Level of pain: >9000

[Nacchi]

Center mass, straight through the abdominal aorta artery. She would have bled out instantaneously. Level of pain: >9000

Ouch! What a horrible way to go.

[Combatmaster1o3]

Have you ever heard of center mass? A lot of blood vessels and arteries are there. If those get pierced and you are not already in surgery with immediate medical attention, you will die with 0% chance of living. It is a guarantied kill, not even a head shot can compare(Head shots are still very lethal do not try at home).

[Nacchi]

Have you ever heard of center mass? A lot of blood vessels and arteries are there. If those get pierced and you are not already in surgery with immediate medical attention, you will die with 0% chance of living. It is a guarantied kill, not even a head shot can compare(Head shots are still very lethal do not try at home).

I've never learned any martial art, so I've never heard of it before. That you for explaingin it.

After your explanation it makes sense that Senzui went for a center mass hit. The second he attacked her Shizuha would have known that he's not the real Saiga, but the traitor who killed their companions and would have fight back. Because of her skill level even an injured Shizuha would have been dangerous to him, so he had to take her out with one fast hit that would kill her instantly without fail.

Edited by Nacchi, December 10 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[citizen_lion]

No I don't think so. It honestly depends on the situation, I mean how long ago did she give birth exactly. Also in an honest fight, how would she fair. I think you are underestimating the lack of masters who are masters among masters. Grand Masters are rare, Legendary's are even more so.

 

I think Shizuha was explicitly stated to be the second strongest in Kuremisago. She's probably mid grandmaster grade from her feats. She probably will still lose narrowly against people like Hongo, etc. but she definitely qualifies for the ranks of RZ and OSNF.

 

Even rare, I would expect that the Kuremisago clan has a legendary and 1, 2 grandmasters, and a fair number of masters, due to its virtue of being one of the most powerful clans recognized in history.

 

But you are right that grandmasters are rare. Jenazad's silat "school" has a large number of masters, people who can break a lot of thick chains around their body with a casual shrug, but still no grandmaster. But that is semi understandable given the amount of tender loving care Jenazad shows toward his students.

[Combatmaster1o3]

I think Shizuha was explicitly stated to be the second strongest in Kuremisago. She's probably mid grandmaster grade from her feats. She probably will still lose narrowly against people like Hongo, etc. but she definitely qualifies for the ranks of RZ and OSNF.

 

Even rare, I would expect that the Kuremisago clan has a legendary and 1, 2 grandmasters, and a fair number of masters, due to its virtue of being one of the most powerful clans recognized in history.

 

But you are right that grandmasters are rare. Jenazad's silat "school" has a large number of masters, people who can break a lot of thick chains around their body with a casual shrug, but still no grandmaster. But that is semi understandable given the amount of tender loving care Jenazad shows toward his students.

I had to keep reading the last line, it was too funny. That was beautiful. 

[Combatmaster1o3]

Although honestly, I am concerned for the effect inbreeding would have on these groups of people. The dominant genes would recede and we would see weird thing happen. Maybe they got lucky and got all they're breeding with all of the best gened people of Asia.(Possible support by other countries? Ninja's are enemies of Japanese Government.)

[Ogata]

I think Shizuha was explicitly stated to be the second strongest in Kuremisago. She's probably mid grandmaster grade from her feats. She probably will still lose narrowly against people like Hongo, etc. but she definitely qualifies for the ranks of RZ and OSNF.

 

Even rare, I would expect that the Kuremisago clan has a legendary and 1, 2 grandmasters, and a fair number of masters, due to its virtue of being one of the most powerful clans recognized in history.

 

But you are right that grandmasters are rare. Jenazad's silat "school" has a large number of masters, people who can break a lot of thick chains around their body with a casual shrug, but still no grandmaster. But that is semi understandable given the amount of tender loving care Jenazad shows toward his students.

In all seriousness though, I say Michael Schtilvay would defeat Shihuza! She is suppose to be a long life ninja and yet she could not sense Senzuis killing intent. Infact this goes for all Senzuis victim, I find the Kuremisago village to be bunch of naive fools. What I mean by that is, they are suppose to be some badass ninja clan and yet they fall for Senzuis trick. Also, they don't have any track record of fighting outside forces like Yami or any other opposing clans to prove that they are the best. It was lame how Senzuis own father got cannon foddered as well!

To me, they are gifted physicaly but they lack fighting experience and they are insanely naive and arrogant. Example would be Sho Kano who thought he was King Shit and coulden't be beat. Yet his weak ass heart got him killed as did the other.

Infact, Sho,Senzui,Shihazu and all Kuremisago clan have SUPER weak hearts. I mean, Senzui got played by the Kuremisago Elders and Kushinada and turned into a puppet. Not very impressive if your are suppose to be the biggest badass of your own clan. In the end they all died in lame fashion.

Personaly speaking, I want to know more about the Yokiou or Furinji clan. Who was Furinjis father or who was Ganosukes master? I also would like to know what Berserkers parents look like since he is suppose to be from the same cloth as the Elder himself. I find it hard to believe that Berserkers parents have crappy genetics since he himself is a Beast both in reaction/depth understanding as well as physical and mental proweses.

I also want to know about Stribeys upbringing as well! Who the hell was his master or parents? He seems like a rich dude since his hobby involves expensive gourmet food. Does this mean he comes from a noble family or was he a product of poverty who fights and kills for money and what was his relationship with Shigures dad and Apachai!?

Edited by Ogata, December 11 2014 - 02:25 AM.

[Nacchi]

I've got some more ranking data.

November 24-30

Rank: 33
weekly copies: 28 138
total sold (est.): 127 060


No data for the week after that, because it has dropped out of the top 50.

[Combatmaster1o3]

In all seriousness though, I say Michael Schtilvay would defeat Shihuza! She is suppose to be a long life ninja and yet she could not sense Senzuis killing intent. Infact this goes for all Senzuis victim, I find the Kuremisago village to be bunch of naive fools. What I mean by that is, they are suppose to be some badass ninja clan and yet they fall for Senzuis trick. Also, they don't have any track record of fighting outside forces like Yami or any other opposing clans to prove that they are the best. It was lame how Senzuis own father got cannon foddered as well!

To me, they are gifted physicaly but they lack fighting experience and they are insanely naive and arrogant. Example would be Sho Kano who thought he was King Shit and coulden't be beat. Yet his weak ass heart got him killed as did the other.

Infact, Sho,Senzui,Shihazu and all Kuremisago clan have SUPER weak hearts. I mean, Senzui got played by the Kuremisago Elders and Kushinada and turned into a puppet. Not very impressive if your are suppose to be the biggest badass of your own clan. In the end they all died in lame fashion.

Personaly speaking, I want to know more about the Yokiou or Furinji clan. Who was Furinjis father or who was Ganosukes master? I also would like to know what Berserkers parents look like since he is suppose to be from the same cloth as the Elder himself. I find it hard to believe that Berserkers parents have crappy genetics since he himself is a Beast both in reaction/depth understanding as well as physical and mental proweses.

I also want to know about Stribeys upbringing as well! Who the hell was his master or parents? He seems like a rich dude since his hobby involves expensive gourmet food. Does this mean he comes from a noble family or was he a product of poverty who fights and kills for money and what was his relationship with Shigures dad and Apachai!?

Its not that they had 'weak hearts'. They were incredibly brave(and would school Schtilvay sorry bro -Sho of coarse). There 'weak hearts' actually referred to their compassion. I mean how did Kano die? BY BULLETS AIMED AT MIU!! Senziu is kind of understandable but he still committed suicide because of his compassion. Kuremisago, nah. Naive, nah. Was it unexpected for Senzui, disguised as Saiga, to kill the strongest of the Kuremisago, nah. I am curious about the Elders family, and Ganosukes. What were their pasts, I can easily see Hayoto having some connections to past presidents and the like.

 

edit: Wouldn't it make sense that they cannot sence Senzui's father, Senzui, and Saiga is becuase they are trained to be Ninjas? That would break half of what you said. 

Edited by Combatmaster1o3, December 11 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[Nacchi]

I think we have to give Shizuha a bit more credit. The guidebook states that if she had a fair fight with Saiga, would would get seriously hurt, so I don't think she would lose to Hongo or Mihai.

 

I can only speculate why she fell into Senzui's trap.

• She was distracted by the other traditionalists who attacked her fellows and scared for Miu
• She did expect Saiga to return soon-ish
• Senzui knew her since they were children and he could use that knowledge against her
• Senzui himself is a trained ninja from an even better blood-lina than Shizuha. If he's able to convincingly pretend to be Saiga that even his own wife could not tell the difference at first glance, he must be very well able to hide any killing intent until the very last moment before he strikes. By that time it's too late for his victim.

[Ogata]

Its not that they had 'weak hearts'. They were incredibly brave(and would school Schtilvay sorry bro -Sho of coarse). There 'weak hearts' actually referred to their compassion. I mean how did Kano die? BY BULLETS AIMED AT MIU!! Senziu is kind of understandable but he still committed suicide because of his compassion. Kuremisago, nah. Naive, nah. Was it unexpected for Senzui, disguised as Saiga, to kill the strongest of the Kuremisago, nah. I am curious about the Elders family, and Ganosukes. What were their pasts, I can easily see Hayoto having some connections to past presidents and the like.

 

edit: Wouldn't it make sense that they cannot sence Senzui's father, Senzui, and Saiga is becuase they are trained to be Ninjas? That would break half of what you said. 

 

I disagree! Michael Schtilvay would school Shizuha here are facts to back it:

1. Michael fought a group of soldiers in a middle of a sandstorm while approaching them in an open field with potenial mines being on the ground and he charged at them and took them out in their home turf. Keep in mind, Hongo was in a different area and so they both handled their business in different places.

Now lets look at Shizuha, she was fighting NON-MASTERS with fellow Kuremisago masters in a blizzard (similar to a sandstorm) and she almost shot in the ass for it despite the fact that her teammates were on the same battlefield.

2. Mihai was able to sense and detect Shigure,Miu,Kenichi once they came on the ship. Shigure is known to be a ninja who is good at concleaing her Ki and unlike Sakaki/Apachai, she doesn't really have a wild and powerful Ki in the first place. Meanwhile Kenichi/Miu are two disciples.

Now lets look at Shizuha, she is unable to detect a gunmen sneaking behind her and she can't tell the difference or doesn't bother to be on her guard when Senzui/Saiga shows up.

Clearly in a fight, Mihai would be able to fight better and be more effective even if he is geneticly inferior to Shizuha since a guy like Mihai is an opportunist who would take advantage of any openings.
 

 

I think we have to give Shizuha a bit more credit. The guidebook states that if she had a fair fight with Saiga, would would get seriously hurt, so I don't think she would lose to Hongo or Mihai.

 

I can only speculate why she fell into Senzui's trap.

• She was distracted by the other traditionalists who attacked her fellows and scared for Miu
• She did expect Saiga to return soon-ish
• Senzui knew her since they were children and he could use that knowledge against her
• Senzui himself is a trained ninja from an even better blood-lina than Shizuha. If he's able to convincingly pretend to be Saiga that even his own wife could not tell the difference at first glance, he must be very well able to hide any killing intent until the very last moment before he strikes. By that time it's too late for his victim.

 

I am sorry but these are terrible excuses, I say this because Shizuha should know that she is in a war and she grew up among war type people. She also knew about a Saiga imposter at that point. Overall she should have known better and even Senzui is superior, she should be able to tell the diffrernce between her childhood friend and her husband regardless of how good Senzui is in disguises.

Now if Senzui pulling off the "Saiga" disguise for the first time on Shizuha, I would have excused her but the fact is, she was already well aware that a "Saiga" imposter was already out in there and was catching her comrads off-guard. Hence she lacked the sensibility to asses the situation.

Oh and again, She ALMOST got shot in the ass , not exactly impressive since the gunmen was a regular human being who sneaked up behind her 

[Nacchi]

I disagree! Michael Schtilvay would school Shizuha here are facts to back it:

1. Michael fought a group of soldiers in a middle of a sandstorm while approaching them in an open field with potenial mines being on the ground and he charged at them and took them out in their home turf. Keep in mind, Hongo was in a different area and so they both handled their business in different places.

Now lets look at Shizuha, she was fighting NON-MASTERS with fellow Kuremisago masters in a blizzard (similar to a sandstorm) and she almost shot in the ass for it despite the fact that her teammates were on the same battlefield.

2. Mihai was able to sense and detect Shigure,Miu,Kenichi once they came on the ship. Shigure is known to be a ninja who is good at concleaing her Ki and unlike Sakaki/Apachai, she doesn't really have a wild and powerful Ki in the first place. Meanwhile Kenichi/Miu are two disciples.

Now lets look at Shizuha, she is unable to detect a gunmen sneaking behind her and she can't tell the difference or doesn't bother to be on her guard when Senzui/Saiga shows up.

Clearly in a fight, Mihai would be able to fight better and be more effective even if he is geneticly inferior to Shizuha since a guy like Mihai is an opportunist who would take advantage of any openings.
 
I am sorry but these are terrible excuses, I say this because Shizuha should know that she is in a war and she grew up among war type people. She also knew about a Saiga imposter at that point. Overall she should have known better and even Senzui is superior, she should be able to tell the diffrernce between her childhood friend and her husband regardless of how good Senzui is in disguises.

Now if Senzui pulling off the "Saiga" disguise for the first time on Shizuha, I would have excused her but the fact is, she was already well aware that a "Saiga" imposter was already out in there and was catching her comrads off-guard. Hence she lacked the sensibility to asses the situation.

Oh and again, She ALMOST got shot in the ass , not exactly impressive since the gunmen was a regular human being who sneaked up behind her 

 

I agree with you, that she should not have forgotten that there is a Saiga impostor around. I re-read that chapter and one of her teammates says that their enemies today seemed to be without a leader. Here she really made a serious, serious mistake.
 
However, why do you assume that these gunmen were regular people? As far as I know only the Kuremisago clan was involved in this fight and in the previous chapter we see that the traditionalists also have members who use guns. I'm pretty sure these guys were no regular hired assasins, but trained Kuremisago clan members as well.
 
And I did not say that he was hiding his ki, but his killing intend. Those are two different things.
 
But I found another thing. When that gunman in about to shoot her, she is saved by "Saiga" who kicks up (?) some snow with his attack and is partially concealed by it in the beginning. He even asks her if she's allright to make his guise even more believable. She jumps right into his arms and that's the end of her.
 
 
 
Yes, she made some awfully dumb mistakes, but I'm not sure if she's make the same kind of mistakes during an unrelated fight with an outsider.

 

I think a fight between Mihai and Shizuha would end differently.

 

As you have stated yourself, Mihai will use any chance and opening he gets. However he usually charges directly at his target and mows down everything that is in his way. He does not use any disguises or other trickery to win and these were the tactics that led to Shizuha's demise. She was not defeated in a way that her opponent was faster and/or stronger than her, but she was outsmarted. The result is the same = she's dead, but we should keep in mind how this was accomplished.

These kind of tactics aren't really Mihai's style and I think he would take her heads-on.

 

And if you remember how it "ended" for Mihai: He was defeated by Shigure who cut his weapon to pieces when they fought one against one. In their previous fight it was Shigure VS. all Danzaiba so I think her loss during that fight doesn't really count. And before that he was almost one-shoted(? is that even an word in English?) by Hongo.

I dare to say that Shizuha is above Shigure at least when is comes to speed and agility, after all she was known for her speed. Furthermore it is is directly stated that she would give Saiga a hard time, who is on the same level as Senzui, who in turn defeated Hongo.

 

So in conclusion, if there's no trickery involved (and again, Mihai doesn't seem like a scheming evil mastermind), I would bet my money on Shizuha.

[Combatmaster1o3]

I disagree! Michael Schtilvay would school Shizuha here are facts to back it:

1. Michael fought a group of soldiers in a middle of a sandstorm while approaching them in an open field with potenial mines being on the ground and he charged at them and took them out in their home turf. Keep in mind, Hongo was in a different area and so they both handled their business in different places.

Now lets look at Shizuha, she was fighting NON-MASTERS with fellow Kuremisago masters in a blizzard (similar to a sandstorm) and she almost shot in the ass for it despite the fact that her teammates were on the same battlefield.

2. Mihai was able to sense and detect Shigure,Miu,Kenichi once they came on the ship. Shigure is known to be a ninja who is good at concleaing her Ki and unlike Sakaki/Apachai, she doesn't really have a wild and powerful Ki in the first place. Meanwhile Kenichi/Miu are two disciples.

Now lets look at Shizuha, she is unable to detect a gunmen sneaking behind her and she can't tell the difference or doesn't bother to be on her guard when Senzui/Saiga shows up.

Clearly in a fight, Mihai would be able to fight better and be more effective even if he is geneticly inferior to Shizuha since a guy like Mihai is an opportunist who would take advantage of any openings.
 

I am sorry but these are terrible excuses, I say this because Shizuha should know that she is in a war and she grew up among war type people. She also knew about a Saiga imposter at that point. Overall she should have known better and even Senzui is superior, she should be able to tell the diffrernce between her childhood friend and her husband regardless of how good Senzui is in disguises.

Now if Senzui pulling off the "Saiga" disguise for the first time on Shizuha, I would have excused her but the fact is, she was already well aware that a "Saiga" imposter was already out in there and was catching her comrads off-guard. Hence she lacked the sensibility to asses the situation.

Oh and again, She ALMOST got shot in the ass , not exactly impressive since the gunmen was a regular human being who sneaked up behind her  

Whats with the hostility bro?

 

This war is fought between KURIMSAGO, all of them are at leasts masters. One would think they have a public educations system that includes modern stuff with fighting, right? That also would include counter strategies correct. Also remember the fact that they are ninjas and ninjas are known for two things, fighting and stealth. It's easy to see why someone could sneek behind her and shoot. Master class bullet dodging only works if you are aware of the shots. Thats why I find it so unsatisfactory to see a lack of gun masters. They would be a terrifying front of any army, even for masters like in Ryo. Even Saiga was caught off guard, being narrowly saved by lame-lord. These are not normal opponents. I stated this a long while ago, master class bullet dogging is easy to circumnavigate if you are a master class shooter, trained on how to shoot masters like how masters are trained to dodge bullets. It is true, Shizuha made some mistakes but that does not make them the same mistakes she would make anywhere. 

 

Schtilvay would have holes in him if he faced Shizuha. She is someone nearly on Legendary level who is know for her speed. Schtilvay is a guy who gets his ass kicked constantly. Being a badass character does not make him a tank, he will get spanked. Logic: Schtilvay<Hongo; Remember the thing about if Siaga and Shizuha fought, both would not be unscathed: implied Saiga>=Shizuha; Saiga==Senziu; Senziu>Hongo; Shizuha>Schtilvay;

 

Also note please that you just confused Ki strength with Ki type. Shigure has a massive Ki, along with everyone else in Ryozanpaku. By your logic then Akisame and Kensie have weak Ki's too.       

 

edit: now that I think about it, are not the protectors bullet proof. If so then the person behind her posed virtually no threat.

Edited by Combatmaster1o3, December 11 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Ogata]

I agree with you, that she should not have forgotten that there is a Saiga impostor around. I re-read that chapter and one of her teammates says that their enemies today seemed to be without a leader. Here she really made a serious, serious mistake.
 
However, why do you assume that these gunmen were regular people? As far as I know only the Kuremisago clan was involved in this fight and in the previous chapter we see that the traditionalists also have members who use guns. I'm pretty sure these guys were no regular hired assasins, but trained Kuremisago clan members as well.
 
And I did not say that he was hiding his ki, but his killing intend. Those are two different things.
 
But I found another thing. When that gunman in about to shoot her, she is saved by "Saiga" who kicks up (?) some snow with his attack and is partially concealed by it in the beginning. He even asks her if she's allright to make his guise even more believable. She jumps right into his arms and that's the end of her.
 
 
 
Yes, she made some awfully dumb mistakes, but I'm not sure if she's make the same kind of mistakes during an unrelated fight with an outsider.

 

I think a fight between Mihai and Shizuha would end differently.

 

As you have stated yourself, Mihai will use any chance and opening he gets. However he usually charges directly at his target and mows down everything that is in his way. He does not use any disguises or other trickery to win and these were the tactics that led to Shizuha's demise. She was not defeated in a way that her opponent was faster and/or stronger than her, but she was outsmarted. The result is the same = she's dead, but we should keep in mind how this was accomplished.

These kind of tactics aren't really Mihai's style and I think he would take her heads-on.

 

And if you remember how it "ended" for Mihai: He was defeated by Shigure who cut his weapon to pieces when they fought one against one. In their previous fight it was Shigure VS. all Danzaiba so I think her loss during that fight doesn't really count. And before that he was almost one-shoted(? is that even an word in English?) by Hongo.

I dare to say that Shizuha is above Shigure at least when is comes to speed and agility, after all she was known for her speed. Furthermore it is is directly stated that she would give Saiga a hard time, who is on the same level as Senzui, who in turn defeated Hongo.

 

So in conclusion, if there's no trickery involved (and again, Mihai doesn't seem like a scheming evil mastermind), I would bet my money on Shizuha.

Your assesment on Mihai vs Shizhua is correct and you bring alot of good points!

I forgot that Mihai likes to bum rush his way without a proper assesment. He did that againts Sakaki,Hongo and Saiga. Sakaki used the devil dust technique, Hongo used the black mist technique while againts Saiga he didn't bother to look around to see if Shigure or anyone else was going to intervene.

Although he may not be an evil mastermind, I will give him credit for luring Shigure since he knew that only 4 ryo masters were meeting OSNF on the roof and so he probably went on a rampage to see if he could attract Shigure and...he was successful.

[Ogata]

Whats with the hostility bro?

 

This war is fought between KURIMSAGO, all of them are at leasts masters. One would think they have a public educations system that includes modern stuff with fighting, right? That also would include counter strategies correct. Also remember the fact that they are ninjas and ninjas are known for two things, fighting and stealth. It's easy to see why someone could sneek behind her and shoot. Master class bullet dodging only works if you are aware of the shots. Thats why I find it so unsatisfactory to see a lack of gun masters. They would be a terrifying front of any army, even for masters like in Ryo. Even Saiga was caught off guard, being narrowly saved by lame-lord. These are not normal opponents. I stated this a long while ago, master class bullet dogging is easy to circumnavigate if you are a master class shooter, trained on how to shoot masters like how masters are trained to dodge bullets. It is true, Shizuha made some mistakes but that does not make them the same mistakes she would make anywhere. 

 

Schtilvay would have holes in him if he faced Shizuha. She is someone nearly on Legendary level who is know for her speed. Schtilvay is a guy who gets his ass kicked constantly. Being a badass character does not make him a tank, he will get spanked. Logic: Schtilvay<Hongo; Remember the thing about if Siaga and Shizuha fought, both would not be unscathed: implied Saiga>=Shizuha; Saiga==Senziu; Senziu>Hongo; Shizuha>Schtilvay;

 

Also note please that you just confused Ki strength with Ki type. Shigure has a massive Ki, along with everyone else in Ryozanpaku. By your logic then Akisame and Kensie have weak Ki's too.       

No hostilitys my man, I am sorry if I came off like that, I usualy get excited when I use an exclamation point. Speaking of Ninjas and Samurai warriors. I wonder if Seitaro and Oganosuke are also connected to Kuremisago clan in some ways or forms.

Edited by Ogata, December 11 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Combatmaster1o3]

It could be possible of similar martial art tribes to exist in the world. I think it was mentioned somewhere the words Furinji Clan, which makes me think that these type of things were common in Japan at least. 

[Nacchi]

Random stupid thought when I should be in bed, because it's late.

What happened to the gunman?

We can see him pointing his gun at Shizuha, then there's lots of snow from when he was attacked by Saiga/Senzui and after that he's never seen again. Could it be that Senzui used him as a pawn and killed him in order to convince Shizuha that he really is her husband? And if he had just killed an "enemy" it would not be that suspicious if Shizuha felt some killing intent coming from him.

I think I should go back to bed.