HSDK Battle 572 Released

Holy crap Kajima is legitimately stronger than Miu, if Kenichi wins does it prove he's stronger than Miu?

This manga confuses me. It throws the entire power scale I have carefully set up after reading the manga about 7 times. Kjima owned Mui. WHAT?????? He wasn't doing this before with Kenichi??? Last time we saw the fight, Mui got hit once but owned the other two, Kajima and Kenichi were on par. After reading this again, my only thought is that its possible that Mui's Ki is not what we thought. We know that Kenichi always had a potent Ki, and it was possible that his Ki may be stronger in the right circumstance.

In regards to Saiga... just wow. In a completely normal position, he owned Shiba. This if nothing else is the def of a legendary master. Being able to defeat a Grand Master instantly without taking harm. I need another chapter, this has thrown a lot out of whack.

Maybe Kajima did the same thing that Hongo did? Make the enemy use there best moves then own them?

kenichi is always stronger in the right circumstances, especially if the circumstances involve miu.

@  So true.

This may be an instance where Kenichi's true ability is far more than he can show. Like when he fought Kano, when Kenichi started fighting unconsciously. Kano, who was better than Mui at the time, got his ass handed to him. By Kenichi... This always stuck out as an irregularity as then Kenichi is actually stronger than Mui. It always looked like Mui would always be better than Kenichi, while everyone else would be passed by Ken-chan. This may confirm that Kenichi has the potential to be the strongest human in History.    

@Combatmaster1o3 I feel like the author wants to keep Miu stronger than Kenichi for plot reasons. There were times when Kenichi seemed like he was surpassing Miu especially the chapters after he beat Kokin, having better "eye-sight" for one but then he threw in that Miu's training was slowed down and all that. 

Saiga is so badass in that suit. Ryuto needs to come back with a suit soon. We need more suits.

I still feel as if Kenichi should have just owned Kajima quite quickly. It makes it seem as if all the training he did in order to rescue Shigure didn't do anything. I thought the point of this fight was going to show that Kenichi was on the verge of Expert class and that disciple class fighters wouldn't stand much of a chance any more, but it seems like the author decided to go a different route.

Looks like the Elder will be the one to fight Saiga when he turns up at this point. Maybe Elder will die? Depends how strong Saiga actually is.

Saiga is so badass in that suit. Ryuto needs to come back with a suit soon. We need more suits.

Mycroft has a suit, Fortuna has a suit as well as Ishida, all these guys fight in a suit and I like it alot!

It makes them look like Marine Admirals! (One Piece)

I thought this chapter would give me some certainty on the hsdk power scale. This chapter has just put even more questions and just thoroughly screwed with the whole power scale. Once again, we wait for next friday.    

Mycroft has a suit, Fortuna has a suit as well as Ishida, all these guys fight in a suit and I like it alot!

It makes them look like Marine Admirals! (One Piece)

fujitora dont wear a suit >3> just saying....

anywaaayyy.....*inhales deeply*...THISWEEK'SCHAPTEROFKENICHIWASJUSTUNIMAGINABLYAWESOMEWITHSOMUCHDEVELOPMENTANDSUCHEPICBATTLESOCCURINGANDKENICHIACTIVATINGTHE"MIUDEFENSESYSTEM"AKAAVATARSTATEITWASSOOOOOAWESOMEEE!!!! *O*

Keo?

Epic chapter, except for the first few pages. It is now established that Saiga is clearly a legendary, probably even stronger than the Elder now. But I hate how the art depicts it. Seriously, the battles have been starting to make sense lately, even among the grandmasters and legendaries, and now we are back to hyping Saiga by making him look like he can attack someone from behind, beyond the range that his arm can possibly reach, without moving. I hate such hype art, it completely diminishes the consistency and believability of the story's universe.

I mean, having Saiga turn back and finish Shiba in one hit with his fingers would have worked just as well for the purpose of hyping, but will still be logical. 

So either Saiga went easy on Hongo (or he would have owned Hongo with 2 fingers too), or Hongo is a lot better than we thought (totally possible), or Shiba is not as good as we thought (also totally possible, considering that Shiba likes to brag, and has been out of practice for a long time, and his main asset is his prosthetic which grants extra speed and jump height). Personally I think that it's a combination of 2 and 3, since there's really no reason why he would have not beaten Hongo as quickly as possible, and also as pointed out last chapter, he could throw a stone toward Nijima without showing an opening to Hongo, but could not focus enough to actually hit, just throwing in his general direction. Note that Hongo had also done things like stopping Michael's scythe with 2 fingers.

Anyway, that aside, awesome chapter. I still believe that this is not the real Saiga though, but rather Senzui in disguise. No tekkou, acts very different from Saiga in Tidat, refers to Miu as his "related to him" instead of "my daughter" (still technically correct, given that he and she are both Kuremisago), and doesn't have the trademark mannerism that Saiga first displayed at Tidat (standing straight and put two fingers on his forehead like in thoughts). And most importantly, doesn't care at all that Miu gets hurt.

Someone else in the mangafox forum pointed out that the person who actually displays Saiga's "2 fingers on forehead" gesture is... Okamoto, on the submarine while teaching the Shinpaku gang. That is also the reason why Miu found Okamoto similar to someone from Ryozanpaku, and also the reason why Okamoto shouted after Kenichi "don't you dare take your eyes off of her" with a wry smile on his face. That line sounded strange initially, since why would he care? It suddenly makes total sense if Okamoto was indeed "Saiga in Tidat", aka. the real Saiga, aka. Kenichi's father-in-law (that line more or less sealed his approval already)

@citizen_lion There is more proof that Okamoto is Saiga from onemanga forums (ironically a guy with a Saiga sig)

the same pretty boy cover my sexy face with my hand thing 

http://www.mangapand...-kenichi/572/12

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/555/2234/3

Excellent trainer that has the spirit of Ryozanpaku

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/555/2234/15

Remember Saiga was the last hero of Ryozanpaku

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/467/1081/3

Uses  the same Furinji technique that Kajima used

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/555/2234/14

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/563/2314/18

Uses the same human shuriken throwing  as the Elder ( possibly another Furinji technique  ) 

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/555/2234/11

http://www.mangapand...hapter-107.html

Disables his enemies as he did against the armed guards when they landed on the island.

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/559/2274/8

Even Miu is wondering what is up as it reminds her of someone. Also this is similar to what Akisame does, and we know Saiga is similar to him.

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/467/1081/10

Is helping Kenichi and Co on the island into the base, which fits with Kajima's orders that Saiga wanted them to get into the base and save Shigure

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/555/2234/7

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/562/2300/5

While this other "Saiga" is willing to kill unarmed people, and is trying to stop them.

Which fits with his order from this other master Senzui

http://readms.com/r/hsdk/562/2300/12

Yeesh, he does look like Saiga when he does that "two fingers" thing.  

Okay, Shigure taunting the Ichiei before kicking out her sword is just precious.  

I did not see the reunion going this way with Miu's father.  I didn't think Miu would snap as soon as she heard he killed her mother.  But she has always been impulsive, so it fits her character.  

I'm not terribly concerned about Miu taking a hit.  She was looking to make counters when Kenichi dove in.  She's been grabbed by Boris even, and put in a lock.  I do think, that if Kenichi had a legitimate reason to fight her, that she would not win.  She wouldn't be able to overcome his stamina.  

Still, it's like y'all say.  Miu is stronger for plot, and now she's been getting some legitimate new training, she's a bit of an unknown quantity.

I guess the Okamoto thing will be solved soon, since he will be the next one to fight Saiga.  That's the only logical step I can see, though the story has been difficult to predict.  It seems to me that "Saiga" and Okamoto have some explicit relationship.  I would ordinarily say "brothers" but that should be impossible.  

I can't really say that Saiga is Senzui though.  Akisame spoke to him as if he were Saiga in that conference room, and out of all the people in that room, would Akisame be fooled by someone's "spirit"?  

It's a good mystery, to say the least.  

Oh I completely forgot about Okamoto, I guess he will be the one to turn up and fight against "Saiga".

I'm feeling like this arc will lead into a time skip. Especially since Kajima is the final disciple class fighter that Kenichi has to defeat in Yomi (We all know he could beat Berserker right?) It also feels like some important protagonist/s may die.

The only other way I can see it going down is if Kajima wins and Kenichi has to go through some more training but I doubt Kenichi will lose this fight.

Rereading a few parts about the one shadow and Saiga, there are too many things that are strange

Firstly, the one shadow, when not showing his face, does not wear a suit like Saiga does. Nevermind the tekkou, he doesn't even wear shoes. That one shadow who appeared sitting behind the blinds wore a sleeveless, traditional gi, and went barefoot.

Secondly, Kajima referred to Senzui as the strongest head of Kuremisago. Why would Saiga and Senzui work together if they were mortal enemies in the Elder's account of the Kuremisago feud?

Thirdly, of the two commands, the command to let Miu and Ken in and free Shigure is Saiga's command, because the "kill all intruders" command was stated by Kajima as Senzui's command. Then why is the Saiga at the control room quite ready to kill every intruders up to and including his own daughter?

Fourthly, where is Senzui? If they are already at the missile control room? This is already the final hour, so how can one of the two main architects of the whole she-bang missing in the defense of the literal lynchpin of the plan?

Finally, why would Saiga kill his wife and her entire village? Not one person was alive in Sho's old village, and the bodies weren't even buried until the Elder came. If Saiga did this himself, then he had crossed all the way into gedou, but why would he switch from katsujinken to gedou in a short time? Why kill your wife right after she have a baby? In fact, why did Shizuha even have to try to hide her own baby from her father? Is it because Shizuha knew that this "Saiga" would kill the baby too?

One possible answer is that Saiga was never the one shadow in the first place. The Ichiei has always been Senzui, masquerading as Saiga, after framing the real Saiga. This is the reason why this Saiga refuses to say anything to Akisame except giving tentative "yeah" to statements that he may or may not have actually done, and so would not be able to talk about much without giving away the deceit (about going to Tidat and meeting Kenichi). This sort of answer made Akisame question too (c540). Senzui trained Kajima as himself originally, then also later also in the role of "Saiga, the one shadow", and Kajima, being very naive in the way of the world, never suspected that his two masters are actually one person.

The real Saiga then use the Ichiei / Senzui's tactic against him, by... going as himself to Tidat, so it looks essentially like the Ichiei himself is spying upon his own people, which, considering the organization, is not that unnatural and raise no questions. And finally, he used that same tactic again, and gave Kajima the order of "help the disciple and free the grandmaster", which directly conflicts with "kill all who enters".

Well, that theory about Senzui taking the place of Saiga in the whole Yami's plan is interesting, but here´s my point of view...

What if Saiga and Senzui are working toghether? I mean, it's said that Senzui is the strongest of all the remaining Kuremisago... but it doesn't mean that HE was the leader of Kuremisago by the time where the inner war was fought.

I'll explain: It was said that the clan got divied in 2, one group lead by Saiga and the other lead by the strongest member in that time, probably the father or grandfather of Shizuha, but it's a fact that Saiga had people giving support to him in his decisition, now, couldn't it be that Shizuha had a brother or something like that (Senzui), who got to be a very close friend with Saiga?

After Saiga and his group destroyed the opposing group by killing the last leader, Senzui took the control of the tribe, and then the both of them aimed for Yami? 

The real question, in both theories still is: Why Shizuha had to die?, I think it all resumes into that question.

@citizen_lion

As to two of your points; Are we sure that the order Senzui gave was the kill order?  I thought that it was Kenichi making an assumption.

Also, just because Saiga admits he killed Miu's mother doesn't mean he actually directly killed her.  Maybe she died because he loved her, and that caused the war.  Or perhaps he feels guilty for letting her die.  Or maybe he had to make a choice, where her life was forfeit as a result.  Any number of reasons could be it.  Fortunately, our author isn't shy from dark stories, as with Ogata and his sin.

But I think I will I poop myself if Miu finally kills someone.  That would be a stellar development...albeit a dark one...

Rereading the chapter on MS, Shiba got owned really bad here.  Really bad.  He didn't even get killed.  That is a result I didn't think was possible.  

Maybe Saiga owned him so badly only to emphasize the need of a strong hero to face him?  Maybe the grandfather?  Is this the time for when Saiga will face his father instead of Okamoto?  It seems impossible that Senzui and Saiga could ever be on the same side.

@Ranemoraken Yes, Kajima did confirm that it was Senzui's order that was "kill all intruders". (p5 c543)

@kanou shou Yea, I can't reconcile the reason why Saiga would kill his wife and probably his kid too if Shizuha didn't hide her, if the kid was in no danger, why hid the kid away? It all looked to me like a last stand of Shizuha and everyone on her side, and they all died at the end. It would make no sense for Saiga to turn to the path of demon right after switching from Katsujinken to Satsujinken.

Dammit, I shouldn't be so OCD, but after a day of fixing the plumbing in my house, I can't help myself but start to read fiction analytically again

So, I noticed that in panel 2 of chap 572, Saiga's left hand, the hand that seems to be in his pocket, actually had motion line effects on it. This is clearer in the Mangastream version. So that explained, in a logical manner, how Saiga managed to hit Shiba a bunch of time while his fingers on the right hand could not have reached back that far (remember that there should be no actual energy attack in HSDK, so no "Dodon Ray" (DBZ's finger pistol attack)).

Well, the left hand was actually the hand doing the punching. The right hand stopped Shiba's punch with 2 fingers, but the air pressure of that punch was enough to take a few strands of hair off. Now that scene made sense.

The next time when Shiba rose up behind Saiga, we see more clearly that both hands had speed lines on them, confirming the method.

Basically, Saiga has double joints on his arms, similar to Sai Kagerou, which allows him to reach back behind himself and attacks. Saiga is just a lot faster than Sai, and the author depicts this by making his arms not visible in the middle of movements. I'm not sure if the double-jointing is genetic or training, but as Miu never seemed to have this sort of ability, I would say that it's training, like the Elder's various body manipulation techniques. Sai's double-jointing is probably genetic, as Sai commented on it as if it was a special property of his body when fighting Shigure.

Note: scratch that, I forgot. Sai's sword arm was also not visible even when striking backward. Only when Shigure stopped his arm by clamping his sword with a kunai (an amazing trick of using friction to counter superior strength, by the way) that his arm became visible.