HSDK Battle 582 Released

I would like to think that Shinogidachi does hurt masters as well, though less so. Kenichi even with ki-holding and frankly mid-master level endurance (he tanks the same kind of damage that mid masters like Li Tenmon was dishing out) still commented that the amount of ki from Kajima is simply too enormous to take head-on. The whole "transferring ki through himself into a wall" thing is probably a Kenichi-exclusive technique too, something only true mastery of Sei can do.

A normal master hitting Kajima would still feel their ki flow halted. It's like punching a solid wall but misjudging the point of impact so that instead of the flat of your fist hitting it's the heel of your fist, for example. Nerve and tendon disruption galore.

But they will recover faster, in the tune of 1 second instead of many seconds like Kenichi (and even longer with other disciples who haven't reached ki holding yet).

Dear god this is sad, but everything comes to an end. I really hope the author will make a second series about master level kenichi but who knows. I also hope in last chapter it will tell us if there will be a second series or not. Honestly, I just hope the series has a good ending that I can't really argue with like yu yu hakusho's ending. But about a china arc or spin off that could be a high possiblity due to the many unanswered questions; like what does kensei's wife and other children look like? I also want to know if a possible new anime is going to come about since the manga is about over. And has anyone noticed a lot of mangas are coming to there ends or have ended? Like that basketball one is over, beelzebub ended, naruto is about to end, sun-ken rock is on it's last arc, bleach is in it's last arc, and HSDK ending what is happening? Anyways those who think the disciple's of yomi or the shinpaku could beat a weapon less shigure I highly doubt that because her speed is greater than all of them. When she was a kid she was able to chase a bird like it was nothing, now being grown up he speed is probably increased exponentially. Also, she can kinda use anything as a weapon, like when she used her hair band to fight that one guy in the hot springs, so a weapon less shigure is kinda impossible.

Its true that her speed and accuracy is her greatest features as a fighter but the problem is her durablility as well as her lack of finishing move while being unarmed due to lack of advanced unarmed technique since she only knows basic unarmed techniques which is pretty impressive for weapon masters in this manga.

So even though she is faster than yomi disciples, she could still take damage and if she is fighting ALL of them and they go all out like Kitsukawa activating Berserker mode,Ryuto activiating Sei-Dou and Kajima using Shinodagachi...This means that she might get thrown of her rythem with all those unique unarmed techniques/moves that the yomi disciples are using and by the time she figures it out, it might be to late for Shigure and the damage she recieves means she will no longer be as fast as before and a grappler like Lugh,Rachael or Boris might be able to catch her in a hold and finish her off (would be so fucking hot to have Rachael put Shigure in a hold)

 

I would like to think that Shinogidachi does hurt masters as well, though less so. Kenichi even with ki-holding and frankly mid-master level endurance (he tanks the same kind of damage that mid masters like Li Tenmon was dishing out) still commented that the amount of ki from Kajima is simply too enormous to take head-on. The whole "transferring ki through himself into a wall" thing is probably a Kenichi-exclusive technique too, something only true mastery of Sei can do.

 

A normal master hitting Kajima would still feel their ki flow halted. It's like punching a solid wall but misjudging the point of impact so that instead of the flat of your fist hitting it's the heel of your fist, for example. Nerve and tendon disruption galore.

 

But they will recover faster, in the tune of 1 second instead of many seconds like Kenichi (and even longer with other disciples who haven't reached ki holding yet).

This is a perfect explanation and it makes sense! Ofcourse when we first started discussing the weaponless Shigure vs Unarmed Yomi, we had no idea Kajima had that technique in his backpocket and in the fantasy match that we were discussing which requires ALL unarmed yomi fighting weaponless Shigure means that while Shigure maybe beating up and doing well againts most yomis, had she unknowngly punched and kicked Kajima, she could have had her unarmed move disrupted for a brief second and in that time, a guy like Berserker and or Ryuto could have dealt a great damage to her!

No doubt, now its been said and done. I have to say that women as well as weapon fighters have been really been downgraded badly! Kind of felt bad seeing Kushinada being disrespected by the author like she was. Granted Kensei Ma is awesome but still. The author did make her look like a chump while she made her exit.

This is also case for the Hachiou Masters as well, while Ogata walked out of there like a BOSS!!! The rest of the Hachiou losers looked like a bunch of dorks who got their girlfriends stolen by some alpha male while they were getting kicked out of a party!


 

I am in a state of denial. This cannot be the last fight for Kenichi and friends/rivals/enemies. I sincerely hope that the author is simply having a brake and trying out new things for a while. There are however many reasons why this would make so called perfect ending. Firstly, the great mystery of Miu's father is pretty much revealed. Secondly, Yami with both the hand-to-hand and weapons teams, were supposed to include all of the greatest martial artists in the world. Thirdly, the only people left in this manga universe (who have been introduced) for future fights would be in China, and perhaps some hypothetical masters of the DofD tournament participants. Because of these details, I doubt this series will go on without some sort of time leap. This is like the climax the author was trying to reach all these years. I only wish he had spent a little more time in these final fights.
Oooor, this may also be some sort of business plan, to end the series here in order to create momentum for a second season of the anime. The OVAs are now up to Jihan, the first real Yomi fight. Check out the moment after the end-song of OVA 11. After that, there is still plenty of material for another 52 episodes or so. After the full anime adaptation there would be a perfect moment to continue the manga. This is me, hoping for a small miracle. The author is certainly creative enough to make it happen.

I'm in a state of denial too.  That's a good thing, at least for the author's sake.  I can see the story go further, and I don't want to see it go away.  That's pretty impressive.  

But I see how this is a good place to stop.  Though...the author doesn't wrap up...well... a lot of the stories...so a continuation is not impossible.  Still... a lot of those plotlines are resolved by common sense from the reader's point of view.  

He just doesn't have a centralizing villain anymore.  I think if he wanted to continue the story, grandpa should have gone out with that missile explosion.  Then again...with all the villains still in the story, their coalition alone is more interesting.  And we still had Gannosuke.  

Just because there's no big action set piece with a "ticking clock" for a conclusion doesn't mean that a continuation is impossible.  Rorouni Kenshin would be an example of that, where Kenshin foiled Shishio's big scheme, and then chased him down to his lair for an epic, but sedated, duel.  

And again, this would be easier if Miu would be picked off as the big threat for a part 3.  It might also convert the allegiance of some fence-sitters.  It would be super interesting, especially since Yami is fractured.  A Killing-fist Miu would be a perfect force to revitalize the bad-guy ranks, but that path waved bye bye through a thousand cuts.

Reasons:

She didn't kill Akira (though she tried...)

Miu tried to save Jenazad

She didn't kill Rimi, accidentally or otherwise, despite the opportunity.

Her father was not a Yami leader.

Her Grandfather did not blow up.

All these together really dry up that plotline... even though he keeps teasing us, goddamn it.

And he has three great fights for Kenichi in the meanwhile.  Hermit, Berzerker, Kushinada...  Maybe that guy with the short blade too.  

Damn it.  

I get that life-saving fist and death-fists are never going to be resolved, and that's not the point of the story... but... WAHHHHHHHHH

I can make a good argument for a part three in Naruto too... but that series is ending all happy-dappy too.  

I would like to think that Shinogidachi does hurt masters as well, though less so. Kenichi even with ki-holding and frankly mid-master level endurance (he tanks the same kind of damage that mid masters like Li Tenmon was dishing out) still commented that the amount of ki from Kajima is simply too enormous to take head-on. The whole "transferring ki through himself into a wall" thing is probably a Kenichi-exclusive technique too, something only true mastery of Sei can do.

 

A normal master hitting Kajima would still feel their ki flow halted. It's like punching a solid wall but misjudging the point of impact so that instead of the flat of your fist hitting it's the heel of your fist, for example. Nerve and tendon disruption galore.

 

But they will recover faster, in the tune of 1 second instead of many seconds like Kenichi (and even longer with other disciples who haven't reached ki holding yet).

You forget while he learned to manipulate his ki on a master level, not that his ki became as strong as a master level. Also since masters can manipulate others ki, I think the reason we dont see it is becuase it back fires(like how you saw with Kajima). You see no moves manipulating anyones ki except for Mikummo with her refined experience in ki explosions.

edit: because your heart stops when your ki flow stops, I'm sure you have plenty of time to recover.

One part of me is very sad that this ended. Hsdk was the first manga I've really loved, and one of the best stories I've read. However, I am glad that syun didn't try to drag it out unnecessarily. That really would have ruined it. Can't wait to see the epilogue!

I do believe it will continue, albeit in another series. A direct continuation but a different manga. I suppose this allows him more creativity.

Its true that her speed and accuracy is her greatest features as a fighter but the problem is her durablility as well as her lack of finishing move while being unarmed due to lack of advanced unarmed technique since she only knows basic unarmed techniques which is pretty impressive for weapon masters in this manga.

So even though she is faster than yomi disciples, she could still take damage and if she is fighting ALL of them and they go all out like Kitsukawa activating Berserker mode,Ryuto activiating Sei-Dou and Kajima using Shinodagachi...This means that she might get thrown of her rythem with all those unique unarmed techniques/moves that the yomi disciples are using and by the time she figures it out, it might be to late for Shigure and the damage she recieves means she will no longer be as fast as before and a grappler like Lugh,Rachael or Boris might be able to catch her in a hold and finish her off (would be so fucking hot to have Rachael put Shigure in a hold)



This is a perfect explanation and it makes sense! Ofcourse when we first started discussing the weaponless Shigure vs Unarmed Yomi, we had no idea Kajima had that technique in his backpocket and in the fantasy match that we were discussing which requires ALL unarmed yomi fighting weaponless Shigure means that while Shigure maybe beating up and doing well againts most yomis, had she unknowngly punched and kicked Kajima, she could have had her unarmed move disrupted for a brief second and in that time, a guy like Berserker and or Ryuto could have dealt a great damage to her!

No doubt, now its been said and done. I have to say that women as well as weapon fighters have been really been downgraded badly! Kind of felt bad seeing Kushinada being disrespected by the author like she was. Granted Kensei Ma is awesome but still. The author did make her look like a chump while she made her exit.

This is also case for the Hachiou Masters as well, while Ogata walked out of there like a BOSS!!! The rest of the Hachiou losers looked like a bunch of dorks who got their girlfriends stolen by some alpha male while they were getting kicked out of a party!

If it was a regular master class then this wouldnt be a question and my boy Berserker, Ryouto, and Hermit would destroy the master but we are talking about Shigure from Ryozanpaku who is a GRAND MASTER CLASS it has been shown again and again how all these masters could aboslutely destroy almost all other masters with ease, and create increadible odds, if they could be beat by close to Expert apprentices then they dont deserve to be called such a high level master

Ok well yes her finishing without a weapon and durability may be her weak points but how can you defeat something you can't hit? Also she is at grand master level which is a lot higher than the masters Ryuto, berserker, and shougo (aka berserker) beat. Like tanaka became just master class and was just able to slightly injure ogata. Kajima only possibly trained against low master class which won't really help against a grand master class. Also, shigure may also be able to strengthen her body with ki strong enough to take disciple hits. Her being around the masters of ryozanpaku she could have caught on to some ideas on how some karate or kenpo techniques work to strengthen your body with ki. Her being a martial artist she is definitely striving to become better at all times and most likely has prepared herself if it could ever happen to fight against a master class fighter without a weapon. So in my opinion I don't think disciples could really do much.

That is a valid point but I can't help remember Kensei Mas "Shigure is young and without her weapon she is just a normal girl" so when he means normal, does Kensei Ma means that Shigure is at a normal master level?
 

If it was a regular master class then this wouldnt be a question and my boy Berserker, Ryouto, and Hermit would destroy the master but we are talking about Shigure from Ryozanpaku who is a GRAND MASTER CLASS it has been shown again and again how all these masters could aboslutely destroy almost all other masters with ease, and create increadible odds, if they could be beat by close to Expert apprentices then they dont deserve to be called such a high level master

I understand what your saying, she is a grandmaster but without weapons, would it be fair to say that she would fall to a normal master level?

I'd like to point out @citizen_lion's prediction of Hermit using a more enhanced version of Kyousa (Gou Kyousa) actually came to be, if not in name, then in execution, as he supported his thrusting palm with his other hand behind it akin to the Tanpa. 

Syun seems to be really pushing the RenkaXTakeda pairing, and I wonder who Rachel was looking back at when the (insert group name for Berserker, Hermit, and Odin) finished off the Monk. 

This final chapter better be something amazing. It feels like how the original Kenichi manga ended: rushed and loosely tied up.

@Ogata

I think Ma Kensei's remark is something akin, "Without her weapons, Shigure is just a maiden."  He's speaking about perversion/chivalry, but perhaps not Shigure's actual character/ability.  His perception versus reality.

I think the "weaponless" Shigure argument has some validity...except... I'm not sure how we create a situation where she becomes weaponless.  Unlike the other weapon masters, Shigure's specialty is versatility.  She uses any weapon, from a shoe, a rock, a toothpick.  There is no realistic situation where you could attack her where she couldn't use one's clothes as a weapon or something lying on the ground.  

The more I think about it, the more there are so many holes in the story that still could be filled.  Damn it.  

@Ogata

 

I think Ma Kensei's remark is something akin, "Without her weapons, Shigure is just a maiden."  He's speaking about perversion/chivalry, but perhaps not Shigure's actual character/ability.  His perception versus reality.

 

I think the "weaponless" Shigure argument has some validity...except... I'm not sure how we create a situation where she becomes weaponless.  Unlike the other weapon masters, Shigure's specialty is versatility.  She uses any weapon, from a shoe, a rock, a toothpick.  There is no realistic situation where you could attack her where she couldn't use one's clothes as a weapon or something lying on the ground.  

 

The more I think about it, the more there are so many holes in the story that still could be filled.  Damn it.  

Ultimately we just gotta see what he has in store for us in the last chapter.

Re: weaponless Shigure. It's true that she is a grandmaster, but her greatest attribute is her immense skill with any form of weaponry, and her precision. In terms of speed and power, she is actually at the regular master class, although a high ranking one. We have exhaustively analyzed this topic before. The weapon usage gives a normal weapon master 3 times the dan in advantage, it gives Shigure even more than that, since Shigure is just that much more attuned to weapons. To get her into a truly weaponless situation would be VERY hard, but one can imagine that she won't be nearly as effective with a piece of cloth versus professional opponents (all on the expert / near master level) instead of having, say, a sword. Even with a wooden spoon, Shigure would have made the fight impossible, but if Yomi can manage to keep her from getting her hand on anything solid, we might have decent chance here.

Re: Shinogidachi. I don't think regular master is immune from this due to being able to manipulate other's ki. Manipulating other people's ki is an extremely high level ability that so far had only been demonstrated in a combat situation by people like the Elder, Mikumo, Jenazad, and Akisame (we can assume that Saiga and Suzi can do this too, or perhaps they are purely offensive fighters and don't have such a technique even though they are higher level than, say, Akisame?) etc. Shigure can do this but only for other weapon users. Even Ogata does not know the secret to restarting a blocked ki flow before, which was why he needed to see Ryuto trying Sei Dou Goui to the point of failure the first time.

Re: the manga... I'm still sad, actually, but also inspired. Listening to the anime soundtrack for work inspiration now. Some of the tracks are so moving.

Speaking of weapons....ATTENTION to this page:

http://www.mangaread...e-kenichi/547/2


In this link, we see 5 weapon masters, 2 have been defeated by Akisame and 2 have been defeated by Ragnarok/Shinpaku alliance and so...What happened to the German Weapon Master!!!????


Anyway, if there is a sequel, I can see Kenichi fighting these types of masters+ Chin Ta Li and Rei Ketsumin:

http://www.mangaread...hapter-310.html

http://www.mangaread...hapter-310.html

Speaking of weapons....ATTENTION to this page:

http://www.mangaread...e-kenichi/547/2


In this link, we see 5 weapon masters, 2 have been defeated by Akisame and 2 have been defeated by Ragnarok/Shinpaku alliance and so...What happened to the German Weapon Master!!!????


Anyway, if there is a sequel, I can see Kenichi fighting these types of masters+ Chin Ta Li and Rei Ketsumin:

http://www.mangaread...hapter-310.html

http://www.mangaread...hapter-310.html

We can only assume that he was defeated off panel by Diego or Alexander. Or simply he was in the same group tasked to find and block sasaki and akisame, but went a different route and so never bumped into them at all.

It's a bit sad that the author is almost forced to wrap the manga so quickly. But as you said, he really needs a vacation to recharge creative batteries. Often time a work of art is more appreciated when it's gone.

Then he would come back with a glorious sequel, with more serious threats (I wouldn't mind going full on supernatural here, as long as it's not cliche-no-jutsu) and less frivolous fan service. We can only hope for the latter.

That is a valid point but I can't help remember Kensei Mas "Shigure is young and without her weapon she is just a normal girl" so when he means normal, does Kensei Ma means that Shigure is at a normal master level?

I understand what your saying, she is a grandmaster but without weapons, would it be fair to say that she would fall to a normal master level?

That is a valid point but I can't help remember Kensei Mas "Shigure is young and without her weapon she is just a normal girl" so when he means normal, does Kensei Ma means that Shigure is at a normal master level?

I understand what your saying, she is a grandmaster but without weapons, would it be fair to say that she would fall to a normal master level?

Then he would come back with a glorious sequel, with more serious threats (I wouldn't mind going full on supernatural here, as long as it's not cliche-no-jutsu) and less frivolous fan service. We can only hope for the latter.

I would mind the full on supernatural. Not only are techniques good, they are what makes this unique and awesome. I would die to see him master the counting hand strokes(plus I think there is some truth to it). I do agree on the less frivolous fan service, it sexy but kinda wtf at the same time.

We can only assume that he was defeated off panel by Diego or Alexander. Or simply he was in the same group tasked to find and block sasaki and akisame, but went a different route and so never bumped into them at all.

 

It's a bit sad that the author is almost forced to wrap the manga so quickly. But as you said, he really needs a vacation to recharge creative batteries. Often time a work of art is more appreciated when it's gone.

 

Then he would come back with a glorious sequel, with more serious threats (I wouldn't mind going full on supernatural here, as long as it's not cliche-no-jutsu) and less frivolous fan service. We can only hope for the latter.

Maybe but still he lookes pretty damn cool and a shame he never made an appeared!  I hope he does re-appear, I know the indian master aka Ortal Sin made his debut Loooooooooooong time ago as well! He was trying to kill a small girl who Ethan saved in india.

Yea I think normal master sounds good or probably like one small step form tanaka
 

True so with that logic, if she had to fight ALL Yomis at the same time she would have a hard time of it since Rimi and Sho Kano can also use Sei-Dou and I am impressed that Berserker,Ryuto and Tanimoto did not really get damaged againts a normal weapon master.

Infact I am super impressed on Ogatas base form who pretty much played with Kenichi and Ryuto who at that point could have defeated that very weapon master as well!

Its amazing that although the manga took 12 years (14 if you count original series) to finish even though the timeline of hsdk was for Kenichi to be in his 1st or 2nd year of martial arts training.

I would mind the full on supernatural. Not only are techniques good, they are what makes this unique and awesome. I would die to see him master the counting hand strokes(plus I think there is some truth to it). I do agree on the less frivolous fan service, it sexy but kinda wtf at the same time.

Oh by "full on supernatural" I mean borrowing from the horror genre. Think about the kind of mind-bending inhuman things that actually threatens the world, things that even Hayato fears, creatures from myth older than written history. No magic, per se, just really disturbing and powerful things that the gang will discover and fight, all just with martial arts (and superhuman bodies, of course).

Kenichi vs. an Alien .... dodge the stone thrown at me

Oh by "full on supernatural" I mean borrowing from the horror genre. Think about the kind of mind-bending inhuman things that actually threatens the world, things that even Hayato fears, creatures from myth older than written history. No magic, per se, just really disturbing and powerful things that the gang will discover and fight, all just with martial arts (and superhuman bodies, of course).

 

Kenichi vs. an Alien .... dodge the stone thrown at me

We can see the birthplace of Nijima's home planet.

Its amazing that although the manga took 12 years (14 if you count original series) to finish even though the timeline of hsdk was for Kenichi to be in his 1st or 2nd year of martial arts training.

Ah my goddess only went on for four years in the actual story, but has been written for 21 years! So im not to surprised.

Ok I am now panicking HARD due to the fact that Death Note ended: (SPOILER ALERT)








with the main character becoming the new shinigami similar to Ryuk who you could compare him to an hsdk master in a sense and yet...no death note sequel!!!

If this is truly the end of hsdk then...this ending would be the manga/anime version of the sopranos! Infact this would be worse sense there are many many many many unresolved issues with the hsdk storylines while with the Sopranos all the characters evolution and storyline was tied up and life moves on.

While that maybe true with the HSDK in a sense that new disciples and master may replace the current generation, the hsdk still has many unresolved storylines that needs to be addressed!

Ok I am now panicking HARD due to the fact that Death Note ended: (SPOILER ALERT)








with the main character becoming the new shinigami similar to Ryuk who you could compare him to an hsdk master in a sense and yet...no death note sequel!!!

If this is truly the end of hsdk then...this ending would be the manga/anime version of the sopranos! Infact this would be worse sense there are many many many many unresolved issues with the hsdk storylines while with the Sopranos all the characters evolution and storyline was tied up and life moves on.

While that maybe true with the HSDK in a sense that new disciples and master may replace the current generation, the hsdk still has many unresolved storylines that needs to be addressed!

Well whats Matsuena gonna do after he's done with hsdk? Thats all he's done. Or he could make a new one, but he loves Kenichi and Miu to much.